For the first of our series 'Women in Shipping', within which members of Women's International Shipping & Trading Association will discuss their experiences, thoughts and opinions, we have the President of WISTA herself, Karin Orsel.
WISTA is an international organisation for women in management positions involved in the maritime transportation business and related trades worldwide. It is a major player in attracting more women to the industry and in supporting women in management positions. WISTA is growing and has over 2,100 members in 35 countries worldwide.
Leah Kinthaert: Are women treated differently to men in the shipping industry?
Karin Orsel: I wish my answer would be NO but unfortunately that is not the case. Personally I have never experienced being treated differently because I am a woman, but I am aware that this is not the reality for many, especially young women entering this industry. The same goes for female, often junior, seafarers.
LK: What is it like to be a woman in shipping?
KO: I love working in this industry. I cannot imagine ever working in a different environment as there is no day that is the same. The question “what is it like to be a woman working in a male dominated industry as shipping” is one I receive often. I said earlier I have never had any specific challenges because I am a woman; thus, I am embracing it and working to turn it from a negative image to a positive one.
LK: What do you think are the biggest challenges that face women in shipping?
KO: I would like to take a broader approach namely what are the challenges for shipping and the transport sector as such. Attracting the next generation and preparing ourselves for the future demands of both our industry, as well as the expectations of our future colleagues, is a huge challenge. Vessels and all transport modes are under constant development with engines and their maintenance done more and more on remote control, unmanned vessels are something that lies in the future. Trade routes, cargo carried, plus changes in the use of energy resources, and environmental compliance are influencing the competencies needed much quicker than many of us expected. These challenges are not gender driven but will influence the challenges we will all have to deal with.
LK: What needs to be done going forward to improve circumstances for women in shipping?
KO: Amazingly enough we don’t even know how many women are working in our industry. Thus, if we are not aware of such basic information, how is it possible to discuss improvements? Improvement of what? The only hard ‘figure” we have is a study from many years ago by the ILO which stated that 2% of the global seafarers are women, and out of this 2% overall 94% were working within the cruise industry. In other words, the number of female seafarers working on commercial vessels is tiny. We have no idea of how many women are working ashore, thus what should we as an industry improve to become a preferred employer? A number of international associations (unions, seafarers’ welfare associations) recently did a survey amongst female seafarers and the points raised have been taken very seriously by the industry. This year for the first time in history the BIMCO/ ICS Manpower study will contain a section on women working in our industry. The ITF and ICS just a week ago released a guide on harassment and bullying, which is gender neutral as both men and women, unfortunately, on board and ashore, have been confronted with this kind of behaviour. What we could do is create awareness and promote diversity and give courses on cultural differences at the seafarers’ schools and universities. We need to start with the youth.
LK: What images/ perceptions do people have of women in shipping?
KO: I think this varies from country to country – in for instance north-western Europe, especially Scandinavia, it is common that women work on-board of vessels, while in other parts of the world, often due to cultural aspects, it is “unheard of” to start working in our industry. However, I know several ladies who dealt with all the challenges they were faced with, decided to follow their dreams and ambitions and started a career in the maritime industry. The perception that the maritime industry is male dominated is “old fashioning thinking”; there is a young generation entering this industry that grew up with different values and who are open minded. The perception doesn’t change overnight; it takes many years and good examples to make a change.
LK: What needs to happen to encourage more women into shipping?
KO: We need more role models and to be more visible ourselves, stand up and speak up, create awareness, and recognition that we need “all hands-on deck”, and share our stories. Publications like this blog, The Shipping Podcast, associations like WISTA and other initiatives that promote and highlight the wide range of job opportunities we have within our industry are very helpful to achieve this goal.
LK: Do you think there is enough support for women in the industry?
KO: I would not say there is enough support for women in the industry. Nowadays there are women, myself included, in board positions; Ms Cleopatra Doumbia Henry - President World Maritime University , Ms Sadan Kaptanoglu – Executive Committee Member of BIMCO, Ms Katherina Stanzel – Managing Director Intertanko, several chambers of shipping have female managing directors, CEO’s or chairmen (Kathy Metcalf USA, Pia Berglund Sweden, Anne H Steffensen Denmark, Tineke Netelenbos The Netherlands, Sabrina Chao Hong Kong). If we can’t make a difference who should? On the IMO level, but also via cooperation between the Unions and the International Chamber of Shipping, guidelines and laws are in place that makes it possible for females to work in our amazing industry; what is holding us back?
LK: Have you ever faced any hurdles in your career as a result of being a woman?
KO: No. I was 18 when I started working in this industry and 23 when I started my own company, which is almost 22 years ago. My company nowadays manages and partly owns a fleet of almost 50 vessels, employing 800 seafarers and 50 plus land-based colleagues. The only gentleman who, during a business meeting kept talking to a male advisor instead of to me, his potential client, guess twice… lost his business.
LK: What attracted you to WISTA?
KO: I became a WISTA member in order to be able to network, exchange views, learn and do business with other women within our industry.
LK: What do you hope to achieve by being a member of WISTA?
KO: My goal is to attract people, and not only the next generation, to this industry making them aware of the opportunities they have when joining the maritime industry. I also want to pave the way for our members and encourage their employers that there is business to gain both on national as well as on international level. All, however, depends on your personal commitment
